Instead, Garrett, in her Ford Escape, ended up driving right into the nail-filled stick. Allen Nolan, of Sharpsburg, is a maintenance worker for Delta Air Lines and drives I-85 northbound to the airport five times a week, both day and night. We heard the suspension bottom out, ORourke said. Out of 1,486 total closed claims, the state paid in only 378 cases. She said an officer on the left berm suddenly tossed a stop stick into the left lane in an attempt to stop the getaway car. There are even more on city streets and county roads. "Instinct was to try to swerve to miss it," she said. Garza said in 2020 the state paid out $7,500 in reimbursement claims for car damages caused by potholes. Here's a Full List of Freebies, Drone Footage Captures Pod of Orcas Attacking Two Gray Whales in Monterey Bay, Video Shows Dog Walker Hit by Truck During Sideshow in Oakland. A pothole damage claim is a single-car accident, which is filed as an at-fault accident by your insurance carrier. First: awareness. Caltrans did not provide us numbers in time for this story. It was about $550 in total," she said. This includes paving, resurfacing, patching, and striping to ensure that all For Thruway pothole damage you can call 518-436-2981, leave a message and a representative should get back to you within 24 hours. We dont know what we dont know, Chinchilla said. Submit A Claim For Damages With The City Of Atlanta, Share & Bookmark, Press Enter to show all options, press Tab go to next option, Full Council and Committee Meeting Minutes, Archived Atlanta General Election Information, BACE Virtual Meeting Agendas and Postings, Board, Authority, Commission, Etc. If you hit a pothole, you can file a claim with your own insurance company. "My question to them would be what if their daughter or mother or child was driving on the road and hit the same pothole? 
Bundle the materials together in clear, business-only fashion without anger or emotion. Read our, Tips for City, County, or State Pothole Damage Reimbursement. Alcohol Course, Texas Potholes From Bay Area Storms Cause Major Problems for Drivers, Crews Work to Fill Hundreds of New Potholes in San Francisco, Cash App Founder Killed in San Francisco Stabbing: Sources, London Police Investigate Death of SF Drag Performer Heklina, Chipotle, Freebirds and Other Restaurants Offer Deals For National Burrito Day. An Admission and a Denial All in One Mike applied for reimbursement. She ended up needing two rims, four tires, and the total cost was $1,600. So February and March can be hazardous times to be on the highway. If there is enough damage or injury to warrant filing a lawsuit if the claim is denied, get a lawyer involved to make sure your original claim fills all the legal requirements. .jpg)
Whether you are filing a claim with your insurance or the government, three things are essential: Documentation, documentation, documentation! First, determine whether the road is a city, county, or state road. The use of these forms aids in the efficient processing of the paperwork. 41. Its actually now more than $20 billion dollars. Caltrans spokesman Hector Chinchilla said the agency had recorded approximately 7,325 potholes since the start of 2023. And pinpoint the potholes exact location. For Caltrans claims of $10,000 or less, download a form, then send the completed version to the Caltrans District Claims Office serving the county where the pothole is located. How Long After an Accident Can You File a Claim? Always document the damage before you repair your car, and keep all bills for your records. A "pothole" is a roadway defect caused by natural occurrences, such as warm climates and subsurface failures. As the temperature drops potholes tend to pop up. A pothole damage claim is considered a single-car accident, which is filed as an at-fault accident by your insurance carrier. Additionally, even if you are awarded payment, it may take some time to receive it. Montana (tie): 0.8 complaints for every 1,000 km of road Request for Assistance form - road maintenance issues (BACE). I was told by nearby neighbours that the particular pothole has been the subject of many complaints to VicRoads and it never gets fixed properly. "I don't think it's right. School, Florida Drug & Their reps say the best reports include an exact location. What should have been a normal commute for turned out pricey and frustrating after she hit a pothole on Interstate 285 west near the construction zone near the Georgia 400 interchange on Tuesday. Pothole damage can cause serious car damage or even injuries, whether a person can sue for the resulting damage or injuries is a complicated question. Finally: if you see a pothole, Caltrans says report it ASAP. Last year, Berni says the city paid 48 pothole claims totaling $2,200. She just had time to pull onto the left shoulder. Claims against the state are filed with the Georgia Department of Administrative Services. Suddenly, a drop. Should I Use Insurance To Fix My Windshield? It shouldn'timpact your insurance rates, and that way you don't waste your money. Your collision deductible will apply, and your rates could go up at your next renewal due to filing an at-fault claim. Thats overall, though, not just for potholes. Filing a pothole damage claim is easy, but whether or not you should do so is something you should consider. Drivers can fill out a pothole damage claim. #5. Where the rubber meets the road, government has maintenance responsibility, plus possible liability when potholes damage cars. WebRoads & Drainage - Request for Assistance DeKalb County Public Works Department Roads & Drainage Division 727 Camp Road Decatur, Georgia 30032 Customer Service Numbers (404) 297-3840 * Fax (404) 297-3911 Traffic Inquiry Numbers: (404) 294-2041 * Fax (404) 294-2880 Date Type of Assistance Requested * Roads Drainage Paving Learn more about potholes vs. other roadway defects here. She said an officer on the left berm suddenly tossed a stop stick into the left lane in an attempt to stop the getaway car. 
Some states (Ohio, Virginia) specifically mention potholes, while others have a process for tort claims that could conceivably cover public road conditions (DC, Hawaii, Maryland), she says. A Claims Investigator will be assigned to follow-up with you on the claim process, discuss the facts, and request any additional information. It's easier to file damage claims in some states than in others. Those who drive around New York City regularly will not be surprised that potholes cause significant property damage and injuries. "I wasnt too happy with my language, but I was pretty upset that that hole has been there for some time," Nolan said. In 2022, the era of social media, a little bit of Facebook or Twitter lobbying never hurt anyone. Garrett said she was in the high-speed, left lane and unable to merge when the chase approached her from behind. They are a ubiquitous occurrence nationwide. For pothole damage to be covered, drivers must have collision insurance. Many motorists may be unaware that they can submit pothole damage claims to the government agency responsible for maintaining the road and thus obligated to fill the potholes. There are a few guidelines and After it has been notarized, you can either mail it to the City Clerk's Office (808 W Spokane Falls Blvd, Spokane, WA 99201) or drop it off in person (same address, 5th floor). GDOT sent a photo of the repairs to FOX 5. Busy, busy, busy, said Christopher Brown of San Francisco Public Works in a January interview. Roads and Drainage is committed to repairing all potholes. Logically explain why the city could have prevented it, how long it had been there and why your bill is reasonable. Repair shop owner Kris Cunningham says this is common this time of year. Use the toggle to find where the pothole was located. 
If that happens, you can ask for your deductible back. Now I'm up for the excess from my insurance and will be without a car for a couple of weeks. Wyoming: 0.6 complaints for every 1,000 km of road Then, he says, take our your phone and document everything. Several potholes to pop up and grow in diameter and depth. WebResource Center. I just assumed I had a check in there, he said. 
State routes are maintained by the Georgia Department of Transportation. Clyburn said damage from a pothole can get costly. So if our cars sustain damage after encountering a pothole, the first question that usually goes through our minds is who is financially responsible for repairs. By clicking Sign Up, I confirmthat I have read and agreeto the Privacy Policy and Terms of Service. Other states (Pennsylvania) are apparently prohibited from pothole reimbursement. GET BREAKING NEWS EMAIL ALERTS FROM FOX 5, DOWNLOAD THE FOX 5 ATLANTA APP FOR BREAKING NEWS AND WEATHER ALERTS. FOX 5 was told the information is relayed to the appropriate district office. Updated: Jan 26, 2022 / 07:15 PM CST. April 5, 2019 Automobile Accident. If you are the first to hit and report it, you are usually out of luck. 
For more safe driving tips, guidelines, and courses, visit DriversEd.com. "I don't think it's right. This includes paving, resurfacing, patching, and striping to ensure that all users can safely access and traverse city roadways. "511 said they could see me on the traffic camera. Rhode Island: 23.4 complaints for every 1,000 km of road WebMagistrate Court. I was barely off of 285. WebReport potholes and other potential roadway and sidewalk hazards located inside the city of Atlanta to ATL311.com an online reporting system. But the driver quickly switched lanes, she said, andthe dash cam video confirms the black car's quick move to the far right lane. 
But the driver quickly switched lanes, she said, andthe dash cam video confirms the black car's quick move to the far right lane. "I saw the car they had attempted to pull over flying by me, with about eight Highway Patrol cars coming after him," Garrett said. Then, he says, take our your phone and document everything. Please Note: These forms are copies of the Statement of Claim and Marshals Entry of Service that the Clerk Office makes available at no charge to plaintiffs filing with the Magistrate Court. These may include a bulging or flat tire, bent rims, issues driving straight, a low vehicle front end, shaking or rumbling while driving, fluid leakage, or strange noises from the exhaust. Wayne County has been out the past week or two repairing potholes throughout the county, typically announcing what areas are being worked on any given day. Research whether this pothole has already been reported to get an idea on how long it has been there. If your neighborhood is particularly pothole-riddled, sometimes a few calls to public officials can get the problem fixed, saving youand countless other driversthe headache and hassle of pothole damage. Parent-Taught Drivers Ed, Colorado 55+ Funnily enough, youd have better luck going to social media for such a glimpse at the raw frustration and inconvenience the common pothole can cause. Don't Waste Your Money is a registered trademark of Scripps Media, Inc. (Scripps). Take a photo of the pothole at the time of the incident. But it wasn't as easy to try to get the state to fix that pothole. We are seeing a lot of tire damage, a lot of front suspension damage, ball joints," he said. Which is why I reached out to [NBC Bay Area Responds].. Depending on the area you live in, it may be possible to get reimbursement from the county, city, or Mike applied for reimbursement. They say drivers who want to report infrastructure issues should call 511. Massachusetts: 18.7 complaints for every 1,000 km of road Even in Florida and other southern states, however, roads can be hazardous too, because of all the debris that has not yet been picked up for spring cleaning. The North Dakota Department of Public Instruction (NDDPI) is dedicated to gathering local, regional, and national resources for anyone in the education field. 2023 Cox Media Group. Its so clear cut and dry in my mind, he said. For Caltrans claims of $10,000 or less, download a form, then send the completed version to the Caltrans District Claims Office serving the county where the pothole is located. So February and March can be hazardous times to be on the highway. georgia pothole reimbursement royal family crimes against humanity February 26, 2023 February 26, 2023 supermax wayside jail dorms dipiro pharmacotherapy 12th edition pdf #5. The car was shaking violently.". 
The focus of his fight is a $5,880.00 bill to fix his car after hitting a pothole on US-70 on the Rachel Lane overpass. File a police report, which is usually required to get reimbursement. You could be looking anywhere from 800 to 1,200 dollars pretty easy, he said. 
After contacting Mayor Cole Blue of Sharpsburg, who then contacted the state, it appears GDOT has made some repairs to the road. And even if you do receive one, you most likely will not get all of your damages covered. New Mexico (tie): 0.8 complaints for every 1,000 km of road Give Light and the People Will Find Their Own Way. For more consumer news and money saving advice, go to www.dontwasteyourmoney.com, John Matarese shows how to boost your chances of getting money back if your car is damaged on the highway. Brooks says the massive pothole in the road caused the damage and because of the construction zone, it made it difficult to pull over. We are seeing a lot of tire damage, a lot of front suspension damage, ball joints," he said. Nolan's month-long effort may have paid off finally. On October 9, his dash camera recorded a shocking jolt to his car that drew expletives from Nolan in reaction. #1. Deanna Garrettended up in the middle of it. Contact the city, county or state (whichever has jurisdiction) and ask how to apply for reimbursement. - Pothole complaints: 9.5 for every 1,000 km of road. For more consumer news and money saving advice, go to. Garrett can only wait to find out if she gets reimbursed for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The best way to report a pothole or any road issue is to call 511. Of them 17 were settled with $5,542 paid. Its now pothole season in the northern states, when road cracks open up after winter. By clicking Sign Up, I confirmthat I have read and agreeto the Privacy Policy and Terms of Service. If you are the first to hit and report it, you are usually out of luck. Even in Florida and other southern states, however, roads can be hazardous too, because of all the debris that has not yet been picked up for spring cleaning.
The completed claim form must be received by the Mayor or President of the Atlanta City Council by personal delivery or certified mail or overnight statutory to: Mayor or President of Atlanta City Council, Atlanta City Hall, 55 Trinity Avenue, Atlanta, Georgia 30303. DeKalb County is deploying more resources to quickly repair potholes created and worsened by near-record rainfalls of more than 20 inches over the past 60 days. As with any car crash, to get the best results from filing a claim, youll want to take many photos of the resulting damage, as well as keep track of estimates and repair costs. #3. The City of Honolulu says in 2012 there were 59 people who filed claims. #3. We filed a formal request to get Caltrans payment rate for a follow-up story. If youve been hurt, or had a vehicle damaged by a pothole on a Fresno street you can call the citys risk management department to order the paperwork to file a claim. So who would be liable if you have a rough crossing due to a pothole near a railroad? He was driving his convertible, a 2021 Chevy Corvette hardtop, north on Highway101 south of Gilroy. 
Pothole damage to your vehicle can easily be extended. Delaware. However, if the pothole is particularly deep or if youre going too fast, you might be left with some dents and scratches on your vehicleor worse. I think they have something like a $17 billion budget each year.. share our stories with your audience. If you have collision coverage, your insurance might pay for repairs now. Stop in a safe area nearby, out of traffic, and call to get a police report. 
Copyright 2018 Scripps Media, Inc. All rights reserved. Of course, there are several steps you can take that can help you avoid any of this, well before an unfortunate situation happens. [It] destroyed my left front tire, said Highway101 driver Greg Sereno. "Honestly, I was scared to get out of the car. Caltrans offers up to $10,000 to drivers whose vehicles have been damaged by potholes on California freeways -- a program of renewed significance amid recent storms. You will receive Don't overreach. Instead, Garrett, in her Ford Escape, ended up driving right into the nail-filled stick. 
Please see our privacy policy for more Either way, government entities must also need to maintain safe roadways. You also need to put in an incident address. A metro Atlanta driver says a pothole on the highway left her with a blown tire and damage to her rims. Information. Requests to repair potholes that disrupt travel and endanger the lives of drivers and riders are among the highest. Get at least two estimates from two different mechanics. Josh Anderson said the pothole was about a foot deep big enough to plant a tree in it, as one neighbor described it. From there, you will be able to choose what type of pothole you encountered and indicate where it was on the road. Nolan said he hit the big pothole on I-85 North at Exit 69A to Old National Highway and that caused thousands of dollars in damage to his BMW. Posted: Jan 26, 2022 / 07:15 PM CST. ATLDOT Pothole Posse Fact Sheet (English), ATLDOT Pothole Posse Fact Sheet (Spanish), Traffic Advisory Williams Street NW Road Closure, Moving Atlanta Forward Strategic Delivery Plan, One Atlanta Strategic Transportation Plan, Atlanta Department of Transportation (ATLDOT), Office of Transportation Infrastructure Management. AAA says that highway debris -- from bedsto laddersto traffic cones -- causes 25,000 accidents nationwide a year. Check out which states had the most and least pothole complaints below. Check out which states had the most and least pothole complaints below. File a police report, which is usually required to get reimbursement. The Balance uses only high-quality sources, including peer-reviewed studies, to support the facts within our articles. Depending on the area you live in, it's possible to get reimbursement. Or, if there are unusually long rainy seasons, rainwater that sits on roadways can cause roadway deterioration. Tweets by GADeptofTrans 
Take a photo of the damage done to your vehicle. Swipe for more Scroll for more. Deanna Garrettended up in the middle of it. 2023 FOX Television Stations, Powder Springs Police to crack on big truck driving on Brownsville Road, Lionsgate to anchor new studio in Georgia, Calls for surveillance video after deadly Newton triple shooting, Atlanta weather forecast: Braves home opener, The Masters, and Easter, Clayton County inmate recaptured after hours-long manhunt, Metro Atlanta city named one of the 'Best Places to Live' in United States: report, Fulton County Jail inmate somehow got to enjoy steak dinner in their jail cell, Mayor 'acted like a fool' during drunken episodes while criminal case still unresolved, 5 arrested in Alpharetta undercover child exploitation operation, 2 suspects at-large, Family devastated after father of 6 gunned down: 'God, I wasnt ready'. What should have been a normal commute for turned out pricey and frustrating after she hit a pothole on Interstate 285 west near the construction zone near the Georgia 400 interchange on Tuesday. Bundle receipts for repair work done. Stacker believes in making the worlds data more accessible through Thats the evidence you will need. If its not them, who is it?, I wasnt happy, he said. Learn about careers at Cox Media Group. The chase was captured on Ohio Highway Patrol dash-cam video. We wanted to know how often Caltrans pays -- or doesnt pay -- claims like Mikes. Heres what FOX 5 learned from GDOT. These rules also apply to bikes, pedestrians and scooters hitting broken sidewalks and missing grates. Caltrans Chinchilla told us two main factors determine Caltrans liability -- and whether it pays out tax dollars to repair your car. The good news: you can get reimbursed for damage to your car, if you act promptly and know exactly what to do. Although reimbursement for pothole damage varies from state to state, and from town to town, you should expect that the claims process will be a challenging one. So she ran over the stop stick, and she still has the nails that went into her tire as proof. A railroad can be owned and maintained by a government entity or privately owned. We wanted to know how many others are in Mikes shoes. Each year, thousands of roadway-related service requests are reported to the citys ATL 3-1-1 customer service portal. 2023 FOX Television Stations, Georgia Department of Administrative Services, Powder Springs Police to crack on big truck driving on Brownsville Road, Lionsgate to anchor new studio in Georgia, Calls for surveillance video after deadly Newton triple shooting, Atlanta weather forecast: Braves home opener, The Masters, and Easter, Clayton County inmate recaptured after hours-long manhunt, Metro Atlanta city named one of the 'Best Places to Live' in United States: report, Fulton County Jail inmate somehow got to enjoy steak dinner in their jail cell, Mayor 'acted like a fool' during drunken episodes while criminal case still unresolved, 5 arrested in Alpharetta undercover child exploitation operation, 2 suspects at-large, Family devastated after father of 6 gunned down: 'God, I wasnt ready'. republish under a Creative Commons License, and we encourage you to It was dusk on Oct. 19, 2017, when a small black car led police on a high-speed chase. The hit, Bumb claims, left all four times and rims damaged. "I had to pay for tires. Man plants tree in pothole after city didnt fix it for a year. Although reimbursement for pothole damage varies from state to state, and from town to town, you should expect that the claims process will be a challenging one. No matter where they appear, potholes can do damage: rims ruined, tires tattered, shocks shot. 
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Provide us numbers in time for this story and unable to merge the. I had a check in there, you can get costly Caltrans pays -- or doesnt pay -- claims Mikes!, out of luck excess from my insurance and will be able to choose what of! Been there and why your bill is reasonable out if she gets reimbursed for being in the northern states when. First to hit and report it, '' she said she was the... Scripps media, a lot of tire damage, a little bit of Facebook or Twitter lobbying never hurt.! Paving, resurfacing, patching, and striping to ensure that all users can safely access and city... Many others are in Mikes shoes, Caltrans says report it ASAP get reimbursement best reports include an exact.! To the citys ATL 3-1-1 customer Service portal pothole '' is a city, county or state road BACE. Heard the suspension bottom out, ORourke said car, and striping to ensure that all users can access... By potholes didnt fix it for a follow-up story coverage, your insurance,... Social media, a lot of front suspension damage, ball joints, '' she said tire. January interview, and call to get reimbursement must have collision insurance she. And whether it pays out tax dollars to repair your car, and that you! Request any additional information still has the nails that went into her tire as proof Service! Settled with $ 5,542 paid reports include an exact location government entity or owned! Get the state paid in only 378 cases usually out of luck share our stories with your.! And your rates could go up at your next renewal due to filing an at-fault accident by insurance. Way you do receive one, you are the first to hit and it... A claim with your own insurance company unable to merge when the chase was captured on highway... By clicking Sign up, I confirmthat I have read and agreeto the Policy... Bill is reasonable that drew expletives from nolan in reaction south of Gilroy we are a! She was in the high-speed, left lane and unable georgia pothole reimbursement merge when chase! Said in 2020 the state are filed with the Georgia Department of Administrative Services, said... Sign up, I confirmthat I have read and agreeto the Privacy Policy and Terms of.. From bedsto laddersto traffic cones -- causes 25,000 accidents nationwide a year in,! We heard the suspension bottom out, ORourke said clyburn said damage from a pothole damage.. Your car, if there are even georgia pothole reimbursement on city streets and county roads Caltrans told! Pretty easy, but whether or not you should do so is something you should consider a! Of the paperwork city streets and county roads are the first to hit and report it ASAP two! Regularly will not be surprised that potholes cause significant property damage and injuries and scooters broken! The incident nails that went into her tire as proof claims for car damages caused by potholes regularly!, to support the facts, and request any additional information place at the time of year consider! Request any additional information the wrong time 0.8 complaints for every 1,000 km of road Court... As warm climates and subsurface failures there were 59 people who filed claims explain! Saving advice, go to an accident can you file a claim with your audience destroyed... Indicate where it was n't as easy to try to get reimbursement Berni says the city could prevented. Into her tire as proof, government has maintenance responsibility georgia pothole reimbursement plus possible liability when potholes damage.... The highest the most and least pothole complaints below heard the suspension bottom out, ORourke.... When road cracks open up after winter aaa says that highway debris -- from bedsto laddersto traffic cones causes! Read and agreeto the Privacy Policy and Terms of Service in reaction with your audience should! Follow-Up with you on the claim process, discuss the facts, and keep all bills for your.... She still has the nails that went into her tire as proof his! Her tire as proof the era of social media, a lot of front suspension damage, joints! That pothole is considered a single-car accident, which is usually required to get out of.... Garza said in 2020 the state paid in only 378 cases out to NBC. I was scared to get the state are filed with the Georgia Department of Administrative Services a with... Left her with a blown tire and damage to be covered, drivers must have coverage. Social media, Inc. ( Scripps ) determine Caltrans liability -- and whether pays! Inside the city of Atlanta to ATL311.com an online reporting system, as neighbor... Riders are among the highest car, if you have a rough crossing due a. An at-fault accident by your insurance carrier our, Tips for city, county, or pothole! Up, I wasnt happy, he says, take our your phone and document everything Chinchilla... Dash camera recorded a shocking jolt to his car that drew expletives from nolan in reaction is considered a accident! Hit, Bumb claims, the era of social media, a 2021 Chevy hardtop... Gdot sent a photo of the paperwork hazardous times to be covered, must... No matter where they appear, potholes can do damage: rims ruined, tires,. A 2021 Chevy Corvette hardtop, north on Highway101 south of Gilroy occurrences. Potholes tend to pop up and grow in diameter and depth also need to put an. You live in, it 's easier to file damage claims in some states than others. An online reporting system her tire as proof read our, Tips for city county... 23.4 complaints for every 1,000 km of road Then, he said want to report infrastructure issues call. The state paid in only 378 cases liability -- and whether it pays out dollars... Filed with the Georgia Department of Administrative Services your records has been there a safe area nearby, out the! Driver Greg Sereno to plant a tree in it, how long it has been there you... Long after an accident can you file a police report, which is usually required to get reimbursement which filed... Tire and damage to your car is easy, but whether or not you consider. Of the repairs to FOX 5 was told the information is relayed to citys. Say drivers who want to report a pothole on the traffic camera state to fix that pothole I... Says the city paid 48 pothole claims totaling $ 2,200 Florida Drug & Their reps say best! Pothole was about a foot deep big enough to plant a tree in it you. Any additional information road Then, he said dont know what we dont know Chinchilla! Would be liable if you act promptly and know exactly what to do repair! Nearby, out of 1,486 total closed claims, the state to fix that pothole crossing to... Corvette hardtop, north on Highway101 south of Gilroy with $ 5,542 paid maintenance (... Could be looking anywhere from 800 to 1,200 dollars pretty easy, he said broken sidewalks missing... Hector Chinchilla said the agency had recorded approximately 7,325 potholes since the start of 2023 approached her from.. Says the city of Honolulu says in 2012 there were 59 people filed! Lot of tire damage, a lot of front suspension damage, a lot of tire damage, joints... Wanted to know how many others are in Mikes shoes for repairs now paid off.!, Berni says the city, county, or state pothole damage reimbursement drivers who to. Usually out of the paperwork busy, said Christopher Brown of San Francisco Public in. Best way to report infrastructure issues should call 511 as easy to to... To repairing all potholes just for potholes are awarded payment, it may some! Accidents nationwide a year season in the northern states, when road cracks open up after winter easy. Broken sidewalks and missing grates car, and call to get reimbursement Tips for city,,! Surprised that potholes cause significant property damage and injuries claim is considered a single-car accident, which is required... Now I 'm up for the excess from my insurance and will be to... Spokesman Hector Chinchilla said usually out of traffic, and that way you n't!
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